CORRESPONDENCE THROUGH APRIL 2001

CORRESPONDENCE THROUGH MAY 2001

To: Robert Magowan Cc: Bruce Murdoch, Don Galloway, Marg Magowan, Helen Furtan, Ken Massey, Walter Holt, Robert Williston

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001

Was glad for your thoughts about 'what next' that you had been apparently discussing with Bruce. The most obvious 'next step' alternative is likely to 'draw apart' from what we feel is wrong, and to seek to serve our Father, separated from the ungodly tendencies in what we thus far have been in fellowship with. This is also the easiest 'solution' and one that would possibly draw a 'following' either right or wrong. In my mind it doesn't seem to be what the Lord would have in mind. (Of course who am I to say what the Lord has in mind!!)

Nehemiah didn't feel it the Lords will to build another city to replace the Jerusalem gone. as a guideline - the but it was successful in the end. and seeking to serve our Father that seemed hopelessly in ruins - rather he did his best to gather together the resources needed to restore the city that had been devastated - pretty much nothing was the way it should have been when he took stock but he still didn't turn his back on it and decide to start over at a new location. Jerusalem was still Jerusalem even when it was in ruins. The new 'rulers' weren't completely insensitive to the need of restoration but of course where soon made aware of the consequences for their own positions if the restoration was allowed to be completed. It was a long story and not without its setbacks but it was successful in the end.

All for now, Edgar

6041

Skickat: den 4 juni 2001

Till: Erik Lund; Lars Lund

Dear Erik,

Thanks for your reply to my concerns. I am trying to figure out if you where questioning the correctness in my understanding of what Johan wrote to me, or if you are questioning the correctness of what he wrote. This is a word for word translation. If you want a copy of the original to check the truth in what I say, I will gladly send it to you.

Translation of quote from Johan’s letter

You mention that workers cannot claim they are poor. We are not like those without substance, who have to go around and beg - I have just checked on the reserve that we have. If in was divided between the 10 active workers here in the country, each one would receive the same as an industrial wage for one and a half months. We are satisfied with receiving food, clothing and house room.    (End of translation)

You will note it wasn't me that used the word 'reserve'. Are you implying that Johan doesn't have correct view on these things when you criticize my worry in these things?

I hope that you understand that I don't regard Denmark as alone in this 'gathering of monetary assets to deal with the costs that may turn up tomorrow', as you suggested was proper. I have no reason to believe it is any different in Sweden or Norway - or in many other countries. The honesty Johan showed isn't just as obvious in many places. In western Canada for instance, two accounts with approx. a million dollars each are constantly being moved just to avoid detection, which leaves the matter of 'honesty' as a questionable issue. Questions to the workers as to their existence have been answered with very misleading and evasive ways. I also surmise that much has succeeded in avoiding detection. Some have written of significantly larger amounts in a fund in eastern Canada - I am not interested in digging into it but I do realize there are no limits as to

what responsible workers feel is proper as long as it is undetected. It is hard for me to understand how workers can honestly make claim to following Jesus wishes for poverty in his ministry and then gather together money in this way. You suggested that your regarded it part of your stewardship to manage these financial resources.

You ask me to think positive about these things - as you asked me to do regarding Marg’s expulsion from the work and the excommunication of the friends in Alberta. Ps 137:4 How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Edgar Massey

6042

Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:07:44 +0200

I enjoyed a thought that my brother Ken brought up about Pilate’s public effort to 'wash his hands' of the responsibility of doing what he could to support the 'politically condemned', saying it was a issue in the priesthood’s jurisdiction. 'Avoid getting involved' was the option he choose - and is as we have noticed, still a popular option, with many advocating it in the issues of our faith today.

Edgar Massey

6051

Skickat: den 6 juni 2001

Dear Edgar!

I have got an e-mail from you, where you are reasoning something about having a 'reserve', and you are copying a part of a letter from Johan...

I just feel that I would give you some kind of an answer to that, and as I don't have your address here, I send it through Lars....

When I got your first letter, I felt that your letter expressed a need and a cry for help, and with that in mind, I tried to give you an answer. I hope to help you look at various things in a less negative light, but it seems to me that you are still working with the information, you get, in a very negative way, which will never bring about anything good..

I would rather have been able to have a visit with you in stead of this way of communication, which is a poor way of getting anywhere... - But on the other hand I feel that I have to answer your 'letter' now.

You are questioning workers 'economy', which people of this world also often do, as workers live such a different life. It is true that a worker has left all, but it is also true that God has met all our needs, because we trust in Him and his care. Oftentimes - and especially, when I am in this country, I surely feel that I have got it back a hundred fold and more! But that doesn't change anything in my service or in my life or way of living. I don't think that it changed anything in Paul's life either, when he wrote that he knew of having an overflow (I might not quote this right), and he thanked the friends for helping him, that the gospel could go on further to new fields. So at that time Paul was in a situation very much like our present situation. - At that time Paul wasn't poor in that sense, and he didn't see the miracle of immediate help in a stressed situation, as we have sometimes experienced. - But he and his fellowmen continued the work in faith and trusting God, keeping free to be sent and be used at anytime. Later Paul probably again saw other times, when there was little at hand, and we know of a time, when he even had a work to make his way forward... I never thought of our supplies as a 'reserve' (in the sense of security, the way you use the word), as our reserve is God, and it is just beautiful to see, how He cares and is moving our friends that a constant changing flow of supplies (in many various ways) is at our disposal, that His work can continue - and these days in many new fields that have opened up in various countries, - and I believe that I wouldn't be called a faithful stewart, if I scattered it all here and now, and then expected God to help me out a short time later, when I have to go out and buy tickets for my co-workers (convention-travels), supplies for convention, paying rent for our batch, care of health etc. Our supplies vary a lot over the years and during a year, but it is true that in recent time, we have had more than enough, and we try to adjust it, but it doesn't change one little bit in our service and faith in God. It has for sure been a wonderful experience over here to see, feel and witness the never changing gospel and the fruit of God's work and His spirit unchanged uniting His people as ever, and in that way confirming our faith and foundation. It is as ever a very beautiful picture! Now, I think, I will just let this do for to-day with best of greetings to you there,

yours in Christ, Erik.

6061

Skickat: den 13 juni 2001 00:07

Till: Lars Lund Kopia: Eldon Knudson

Regarding Johans and Eriks letters

Lars

You forwarded a letter from Erik to me regarding the concern I had written about the financial structure that has been built up in the work. I did send you a copy of the answer that I had sent to him, and I have surmised that you likely support these things in a similar way that Erik does. Perhaps it would be the fairest to ask for a direct answer as to your position on these matters. I did understand you felt it best to support the responsible workers as far as excommunication and such is concerned. When these sizable bank accounts - funds - mineral rights and other types of capital placements turned up in Canada in 'the work' I did not realize that these kind of things seem quite common in many other fields - including Scandinavia. I have wondered at the sizeable investments made by 'the work' in different areas but until now have been able to ignore the obvious. Just one look at the cars 'in the work' doesn't speak of poverty to people in my income class at least.

However I do understand these things are strongly supported by responsible workers. I did find it interesting to note that of the letters I received from workers about these things, half said they were not aware of these accounts at all and the other half seemed to feel like Erik, that it was a proof of the blessing of God.

One of the things that I have been glad for through the years is the proof that God is in this way, as it is able to function without the financial structure that worldly institutions must have to exist. It isn't easy to find strength in this line of thought today.

If institutionalized conventions need a financial system just to pay the bills then perhaps it is the structure of the convention system, including the travel system involved, that needs to be reconsidered! Or has it been decided that poverty and homelessness isn't important for workers today.

I enjoyed a thought that my brother Ken brought up about Pilate’s public effort to 'wash his hands' of the responsibility of doing what he could to support the 'politically condemned', saying it was a issue in the priesthood’s jurisdiction. 'Avoid getting involved' was the option he choose - Make a claim to personal innocence and then proclaim respect for someone else's jurisdiction. This is as we have noticed, still a popular option, with many advocating it in the issues of our faith today.

Edgar Massey

6131

Skickat: den 14 juni 2001

Till: Erik Lund Kopia: Lars Lund

A reply to a letter I received from Mark

Dear Mark

Thank your for your letter Mark. You say that you share my concern - and then spend the rest of the letter saying there is no cause for concern :-) !!!. Noticed that you said you didn't like the way that I spoke about older brothers especially Dale Shultz and Jack Price. As far as I know I have made absolutely no comments about Jack Price. The only reference made to him was in a letter that Willis Propp wrote asking him to disassociate himself from some friends in Alberta, that Willis had judged unworthy of anyone’s kindness. I have criticized some of the statements Dale made at that time as seemingly extremely ungodly - and this is still my feeling on the matter. Especially his letter encouraging friends to act against the convictions God had given them and instead trust workers advice. We will see if time and experience will change either one of our perspectives on these things. I did notice that you support these things on the grounds that workers of his class always have made right decisions, even if sometimes normal people could not be expected to understand them.

With regard to this, I will mention a thought that my brother Ken brought up about Pilate's public effort to 'wash his hands' of the responsibility of doing what he could to support the 'politically condemned'. Pilate said it was a issue in the priesthood’s field of responsibility. 'To avoid standing up for what he knew in his heart was right' was the option he choose - He made claim to personal innocence and then hid behind proclaimed respect for someone else's jurisdiction. This seems to be a popular option amongst some today . The position is 'If it is not me being hung - then let hang.' - 'Let one die for the people' - 'Don't get involved in this kind of mess!'. This was also the stand that many (of course not all) workers took regarding Terry this last fall when she was falsely condemned.

Pilate was willing to allow our Lord to be hung on the cross knowing in his heart he was innocent, only to avoid a fuss - and avoid a run-in with the high-ups in the priesthood.

I have received a number of replies with different positions on some of the different things that I had mentioned in that letter. Amongst others was a letter from Johan Jorgensen with some interesting points. He made some effort to deal with my concern about the million dollar accounts that have come to light in Canada. He evidently felt that this was acceptable considering the greater number of workers in Alberta. This is the comment that he made regarding the Danish situation. To me this does not speak of poverty. Honestly - does it speak of poverty to you?

When these sizable bank accounts - funds - mineral rights and other types of capital placements turned up in Canada in 'the work' I did not realize that these kind of things seem quite common in many other fields - including Scandinavia. I have wondered at the sizeable investments made by 'the work' in different areas but until now have been able to ignore the obvious. Just one look at the cars 'in the work' doesn't speak of poverty to people in my income class at least.

I do understand these things are very strongly supported by responsible workers and to some this is sufficient proof of its rightness. However I did find it interesting to note that of the letters I received from workers about these things, half of them proclaimed they were not aware of these accounts at all (proving that they are fairly well hidden), and the other half seemed to feel like Erik wrote to me, that they were proof of the blessing of God.

One of the things that I have been glad for through the years as proof in my heart that God is in this way, is that it is able to function without the financial structure that all worldly institutions must have to exist. I fear that my children won't have the privilege of honestly finding strength and comfort in this beautiful thought.

If institutionalized conventions need a financial system just to pay the bills, as Erik has explained to me, then perhaps it is the structure of the convention system, including the travel system involved, that needs to be reconsidered! Or has it been decided that poverty and homelessness aren't important for 'modern' workers in the age that we are living in today. Have times changed?

I will enclose a letter that turned up today suggesting that the Scandinavian position to a 'non-poverty' version of the work is accepted and well defended in other fields as well.

Edgar Massey

Attached: John Evan Jones' Court Document

6141

LETTER TO THE WORKERS IN SCANDINAVIA (June)

6171

From: Edgar Massey

To: Dale Shultz

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001

Hello Dale

Wonder if you would mind giving me some kind of a confirmation regarding if you have forwarded the last two letters I have written to Willis as I have asked if you would mind doing. This because he has closed his email account.

If you feel you can't do this I will find some other way. To me it is important that he gets these messages.

Hope to see you in just over a week in Orsa

Edgar Massey

6191

2001-06-23

Dear Edgar

Yes, it was fair to ask myself what I believe in connection with the correspondence you have with Erik, Johan and others.

I made my choice to walk in Gods way in 1961, after a childhood where I had received much love from God, from my parents, from Gods people and from the workers following Christ. At an early stage in life I had great admiration for those that had left all to follow in Jesus footsteps to preach the Gospel. Also quite early in my experience I felt a calling to the ministry, with the simple philosophy that if there were any people in the world I would like to help, it was the people in this work. I have had good opportunity to see what is going on in the work. Seen the personal sacrifice of many different companions both young and old, and still admire those that are willing for this work, I have found no reason to be critical about the way things are worked.

It does not mean I am never worried about an thing and think that all is perfect, but I see that God is in this way, as you also said, and that God is working with his people, with his servants, and I do trust that things will come out right at the end in spite of human imperfections.

Gods way is marvelous and it works so will. Isn't it wonderful that there is more than needed for all the activities that are a blessing and a help for so many. - Jesus said when you give alms, you should not let your left hand know what the right hand does. I believe that means you should not need to check in detail how this is handled, because it is given to someone you can trust. I have been glad to see that we can trust our workers when they have little, and when they have plenty. It would be a lot worse if money disappeared, and everyone was lacking, and we had to ask for more.

I think this should be enough to answer your question

Will send this with greetings in Christ

Lars (signed)

6231

Skickat: den 25 juni 2001

Till: Eldon Knudson

Eldon

I will try and get an answer off to your letter this morning. I appreciated you writing and I am of course aware of the implications that my concerns have on you even if most things are not directed at you. I would like to believe that your comment about me 'despising' you was made more in frustration than it was in honest evaluation of the things that I have said and written. I have distinctly expressed my appreciation of many things in your service that I regard as outstanding and very admirable. I still trust your spirit and purpose far more than most others in your position. And as to your question as to how I would have done if I was still in the work - I am convinced that I would have likely have done a whole lot worse than what has been. In my mind that is possibly one of the reasons that the Lord did not preserve me in the work. None of these things change the fact that that following the simple example of Jesus is important if we wish to have the blessing of God in the future of our lives. NONE of us is above this.

Your questioning of my motives is a legitimate question. I suppose that nothing I will say in this letter will change your assumption that it is a desire to spread my name far and wide. Motives are of course important but extremely hard to judge - It isn't always easy for us to even know what they are ourselves. Even if my motives should be wrong - 'truth cannot be denied even spoken by a fool'.

I do feel what you said in the last paragraph in your letter is an important key - It is important that we, as your wrote, "come to convention in the right spirit, wanting again to sit at the feet of Jesus and learn of him.

Conventions have proved to be a time of help and healing in the past and can be just this for us now, if we come in a humble, quiet spirit." If we all do this, our time together should give us willingness to put wrong things right and go forth in true service to him.

Hope to see you in a couple of days at Orsa

Edgar

Will enclose an Open Letter to Willis Propp that I am just one of many, many others in sharing these concerns.

6251

From: Edgar Massey

To: Helen Furtan    Cc: Ken Massey, Robert Magowan, Robert Williston, Don Galloway, Bruce Murdoch, Marg Magowan

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001

Just a quick note to some of you to say that I received a quite nice reply from Cornelious Jaenen today. His concerns are a bit different than mine but he did have some quite good points. He looks at things from a historians point of view and although this isn't my concern - it does put a new light on some things. It is also sent 'snail mail' so will have to be retyped if it is to be shared.

Edgar Massey

6252

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001

Dear Edgar and Mireille

You are no doubt looking for a reply to your last letter. First I will say I am very sorry you feel you need to once again air your complaints in this manner. We have tried to talk to you and others have written giving you good advice of how to find peace in your heart. Much good advice was given to you in the letter that Johan wrote to you, but you see fit only to send one portion of his letter to many others. You mention your concerns, and we have talked to you about some of them, and I have done a lot of searching in my own life, and find there are some things I could be more careful with. As Johan told you, constructive criticism can be helpful but you have gone far beyond that. However, I do wonder, Edgar, if you had continued in the work and had the present day situations and responsibilities to deal with, that fall on workers today, if you could have or would have made decisions differently! I know that some of the things you criticize us of, we discussed in your home some years ago, when decisions had to be made of how best to meet the situations as they came upon us.

Through the years I have tried to consider you and your family with visits etc., and you have been given much help from the time that you left the work, help of those who have continued in the work. But perhaps this is our 'thanks' for that now.

You bring up about Terry in nearly every letter. This was dealt with, and there was the one point I had been misinformed about, and had mentioned to others, and I have asked for forgiveness for this. When she was in the work, she and her sister were given many privileges and favours, and much was done to make it possible for them to be in Sweden and to secure citizenship etc., but again, maybe this is the 'thanks' I get for it now. We know how dangerous it is to set one person high on a pedestal, as we can be so mesmerized by them, that we fail to see some of the errors they make, and blindly follow along with them.

As far as referring to us as being like Pilate, like the counsel that condemned Jesus to death, etc. etc., we are still the servants of the God of Heaven, and He will in due time take vengeance as He sees fit, if there is not a humble repentance shown. Yes, we all stand under the judgement of God. I have often prayed for you that you would not go so far as to blaspheme the work of the Holy Spirit, in your statements about the workers.

I am not about to try to justify or condemn you or anyone else, but I have searched your letters to see what the root is, that is causing you such distress.

I am convinced that it is either wanting to have your name spread far and wide, or envious and jealous or a despising for me, as nearly all the things you mention reflect on me.

Yes Edgar I can remember times when the homes of the Sunday morning meeting, were homes where you could come and feel the peace of God there, where one could feel welcome and where God's people could meet and break bread together, in harmony and unity. I remember those who had the meetings in their home, took time to visit those unable for meetings, and encouraged and stood by the workers that gave their lives to carry the Gospel to others. Yes, I am glad there are still homes like that today, and where the children in the home learn to love the meetings, the friends and workers. I am glad that I was raised in a home where I never did hear the workers being criticized thought workers then were not perfect either, but laying down their lives in a sacrifice of love for God's will and way for their lives.

I am thankful there are workers today going the same way Jesus sent His disciples, going in faith, and able to face, as Paul said, a lack of abundance, when it comes to the natural needs and requirements. We have learned as workers, that we are responsible for how we use what has been given to us, but I do want to make changes where necessary to please our Heavenly Father. I do not for one minute say that I have always been wise and made the right decisions in using what has been given to us, but I do want to make changes where necessary, and be able to be like is written of Daniel, "neither was there any error or fault found in him" .I have not attained this as yet, but strive to do so. I do not seem to find where it says that the workers are to live in poverty! We are trying to follow Jesus example of living by faith, and not laying up treasure for ourselves, but wanting to deny ourselves and take up our cross and follow Him. What kind of testimony is it to our friends if we live in rags and drive wrecks! Some of our friends have talked to me about that, and want people to know that they love and support this work!

Oh how I would like to see a letter from you finding some good in some, (I am sure there is some good in most workers and friends) rather that digging into the mistakes and weaknesses of us all, and condemning us as only ungodly people. This is what destroys fellowship, and maybe that is what you want to do, to destroy us. You may succeed in destroying some, but the result will be in you destroying your family and yourself.

I hope I am wrong in some of the observations I have made, but in letters from the different ones, asking who this man Edgar is, people who have received your letters that do no even know you, asking if he is in fellowship with us, or does he go to meetings etc. make me understand the spirit of the letters were not guided by the spirit of God.

Oh yes, a person could write many things but I do not feel this is the way to resolve any differences, as most often it is misconstrued or misunderstood, as maybe even this letter will be, but it is still written in concern for you and your family and your future in the Kingdom of God. I do hope and pray that peace could be restored amongst us so there could be the desired fellowship in the Spirit that is so vital to be able to continue and reach the goal of eternity with our Master.

I am sorry to have to write some of these things, but hope you can understand I am concerned about your spiritual welfare, for you and your family.

I hope we can all come to convention in the right spirit, wanting to again sit at the feet of Jesus and learn of Him. Conventions have proved to be a time of help and healing in the past, and can be just this for us now, if we come in a humble, quite spirit.

Greetings Eldon

6253

Skickat: den 26 juni 2001 12:38

Till: Lars Lund

Thanks for your letter

I will answer your letter in this way as it seems easier for me, and I do believe that it does reach you this way. I appreciated you writing although I did get the feeling that you were getting tired of my correspondence.

I do have an understanding for this. I also am convinced as you suggested, that things will work out in the end, in spite of our human imperfections. I have not questioned the fact that God is in this way and working with his people and with his servants. It is never-the-less true that Lord does expect of us all a basic respect for the example and teaching of his son. 'Ease of administration' is not the only principle that is important to maintain his blessing and preserve the beauty of his way on the earth. None of us 'own' this fellowship and have the right to form it as we feel best. It is Gods.

We enjoyed a visit from Johan, Hilde and Tordbjorn Skammelsrud this last weekend. They came on Friday in time to help us celebrate 'midsummer' - we spent Saturday at Liseberg in Gothenburg and then were at the meeting at Lows in Gothenburg on Sunday morning. Before they left on Sunday evening Terry cooked a Peruvian chicken BarBQ that we all enjoyed together.

We plan to take our little trailer and big family up to Orsa tomorrow for the convention there. It is possible we may come to Stokke for Sunday if things work out for that.

Greetings in Him, Edgar

Will enclose an Open Letter to Willis Propp that I am just one of many, many others in sharing these concerns, amongst other things, for the Lords people expelled and rejected from fellowship in Western Canada.

6261

From: Edgar Massey

To: Jim Atcheson, Merlin Affleck, Mary Roper

Subject: Open letter to Willis

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001

Want to share this Open Letter to Willis Propp that I am just one of many, many others in sharing concerns, amongst other things, for the Lords people expelled and rejected from fellowship in Western Canada.

6262

CORRESPONDENCE THROUGH JULY 2001

INDEX