 CORRESPONDENCE TO END OF FEBRUARY 2001 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 13:13:48 +0100 I have sent this reply to Willis and a copy to Dale, Jim and Merlin To Willis Thank you for your prompt reply. The others that I have written to haven't deemed our concerns important enough to reply as yet, even though I sent the message to them long before I did to you. To me and the others I have been in contact with this is a very, very upsetting issue and needs to be put right before it leads to even more serious consequences. Willis surely, the size and development of the organization does not prove the rightness before God in it. That line of reasoning is a slap in the face to many faithful servants and saints willing to accept the consolation that Jesus gave that 'few there be that find it'. Compromising the spirit of love and compassion that Jesus regarded as paramount just to keep the numbers up and organized in place, doesn't seem in line with the teachings of Jesus. He was anxious to share his bread with Judas even knowing the wrong he had done. Rightness is not decided by majority decision - instead of looking for support amongst you peers I beg you ask the spirit within you that God has given. I am satisfied it will give you a different answer. Is the policy of expulsion the Christ like way to go? Willis I sincerely ask you to reconsider the policy that you have evidently made up your mind to apply in these things. It is going to lead to some very bad things. This problem is NOT going to go away - and for each expulsion you are going to be forced to make two more new ones each more unGodly than the one before. A brother in Sweden, Edgar Massey PS We heard via Ron Johnson you had been in Oklahoma to see your brother and family. Ron is special to us as it was he and Larry that had the mission when my wife Mireille professed. 3021 Date: Sunday, March 04, 2001 7:15 AM Willis Our concerns are not getting less, and seeing that we receive no acknowledgment at all from the workers in Saskatchewan, I have thought about the verses you quoted in your reply, that the best way of dealing with some questions is to speak 'face to face'. I could suggest meeting you, along with Dale, Jim and Merlin if you can convince them to come , Helen, Ken, and uncle Bob at mom and dads. I also could think it would be good to have some more neutral elders like uncle Howard, Bill Howden or any others that you would deem suitable just as 'witnesses' This would give us a chance to present our concerns and make an honest effort to make place for the True Spirit. If you suggest a time that would be suitable we will do the best we can to comply. As you will understand for my part things are a bit dependent on available air tickets etc. If possible a Saturday would be easiest for me to work out. I could leave here and arrive in Canada on a Thursday. Have Friday to get my feet under me, get together with you on the Saturday and take a return flight on the Sunday evening. I do have an understanding for the feeling may have that you may have that it is unsuitable that I am involved at all - Of course the fact that Helen is my sister, Ken is my brother, Margaret is my cousin, and Uncle Bob is my uncle do have a certain bearing. Another reason is that I have had a privilege this fall that I think is significant, and I would like to share it with you. Your brother, Edgar 3041 FrFn: Dale Shultz Skickat: den 5 mars 2001 21:41 Dear Edgar, I have 3 messages now that have come from you in the last week. I will send a few lines back this morning. Your cousin, Marg, has been a problem for many over the course of the last few years. By "many", I would include her companions, many elders in her fields, other friends in her fields, etc. Her frequent bizarre messages at conventions and special meetings these past years would invariably draw the attention of visiting workers and raise comments and questions from them. Even this last special meeting round, in which I thought her messages were somewhat toned down from what they had been in previous years, some of our visitors questioned her attitude and messages. I would say also that, over these past years, a great deal of patience, kindness, consideration and mercy has been expressed towards Marg in spite of difficulties towards which she was contributing. These difficulties were by no means limited to her involvement with the Alberta situation. Also, over these years, a great deal of effort went into trying to help Marg with her attitude but to no avail. I would just say that there is a huge part of the picture that you were not seeing when you sent out the E-mails that I have seen. If your analysis is correct, the workers in Saskatchewan would be a very oppressed, unhappy group of people. This is certainly not the case. Also, the friends would be a very distressed, frustrated, anxious group of people. I haven't seen evidence of that being the case either except in a very few, isolated instances. We do feel sorry for Marg and for the direction she is choosing to take. She doesn't have a lot of credibility among workers and friends who know her. She is further eroding that credibility at the present time by sending letters throughout western Canada in her own defense. Most of these letters are going to people who were already very aware that something was not right in her spirit and ministry. They knew this just by observation, not because those on our staff have been doing any talking. I don't like to be put in the position where I even need to mention these things about Marg. I feel that I must relay something to you because you are forming some conclusions on the basis of partial information along with a good deal of distorted information. I hope that this can be of some help. 3051 From: Edgar Massey CC: Merlin Affleck, Jim Atcheson, Willis Propp Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:28:38 +0100 Thank you for finally acknowledging my concerns - Dale I think that you will understand that the spirit of this letter only increase the burden of my heart for what this fellowship is coming to if this attitude is the prevalent one amongst the workers. With all these things wrong in your opinion why did you give her the choice of staying in the work if she stopped visiting the expelled friends in Alberta. I will let this be all, Edgar 3052 Skickat: den 6 mars 2001 06:13 Dear Edgar, I have just read yours. You were wondering why a promise to not visit the disturbed people in Alberta would have been sufficient to have enabled Marg to stay in the work. That is actually not the case. We had five requirements to present to Marg and we were asking for a commitment on all five of them. Before we brought up any of them, Marg asked us if these requirements would affect who and where she visited. So, when she was unable to comply with this part of it, we brought up nothing further. A simple understanding that workers recognize the world over is that we don't go into other fields and get involved without the knowledge and sanction of the workers in that field. That applies to the field bordering us, let alone the neighboring province. 3061 To: Dale Schultz CC: Willis Propp, Jim Atcheson, Merlin Affleck Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 06:40:18 +0100 Just a response to this statement that you made your reply "A simple understanding that workers recognize the world over is that we don't go into other fields and get involved without the knowledge and sanction of the workers in that field. That applies to the field bordering us, let alone the neighboring province." I would like to point out that workers do NOT own friends nor is it their responsibly to make lists of who can visit them. This is NOT a world wide standard. We have visits all the time from both workers and friends where Mireille (my wife) is the first one to get on the phone to share the joy with the workers in our field. In our case this isn't just a neighboring province it is very often neighboring countries. (Not that I believe the Lord is so very interested in where political borders are drawn.) The worldly system of application forms and visas is simply a tool to either create or enforce a worldly power structure and it is not the task the Lord has given to workers. You do NOT own the workers on your list. When you try to make the rules as to what they are allowed to say, and who they are allowed to visit, and what they must promise not to say, and what they must promise not to do, you are stepping FAR FAR out of line. Your comment that her part in the conventions was 'bizarre' was in my mind was the height of unwanton censorship. I can NOT see the rightness in it. I can assure you that I have fellowship with quite a number of people who have been at many conventions where Margaret has been that have far more respect for her, and appreciation of her service to God. Edgar 3062 To: "Merlin Affleck CC: Dale Shultz, Jim Atcheson, Willis Propp Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:36:32 +0100 I felt the letter was in written in a very informative and accurate way as many will be wonder how and why she left the work. I don't feel at all that Dales description suits it at all and is an extremely unfair and violent criticism of the letter. I don't detect a wrong spirit in her letter but can have serious concerns about the spirit the following quotation from Dales letter to me conveys. This is a direct quote from his letter to me "She is further eroding that credibility at the present time by sending letters throughout western Canada in her own defense. Most of these letters are going to people who were already very aware that something was not right in her spirit and ministry. They knew this just by observation, not because those on our staff have been doing any talking." Edgar Massey 3063 Skickat: den 6 mars 2001 19:50 Dear Edgar, I feel that I need to apologize for the harsh tone and judgmental nature of my first E-mail message to you. In looking over it now, I feel sorry that I wrote it the way that I did. Sometimes we all do things too impulsively. I would like to rewrite the substance of the two previous E-mails in a more simple and, I hope, a more kind way. The background of our visit with Marg was the concerns of many people, workers and friends alike, people within Saskatchewan and outside of its borders. We were also moved by our own deep conviction before God regarding what is best for the kingdom and also with a concern regarding what is best for Marg. 3064 To: Dale Schultz CC: Jim Atcheson, Merlin Affleck, Willis Propp Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:44:10 +0100 I note your apology for the tone and nature of your first email to me. The tone of your letters has surprised me but this is not important as far as I am concerned and can easily be forgiven and forgotten. I have every understanding for the tendency in pressed situations to say things that could have been said otherwise. In any case it is definitely not me that you owe the eventual apologies to. You have said nothing directed to me personally that even in the remotest way would call for apology. I do however still have serous concerns about the content of your message concerning Margaret. The policy of using a human power base to pressure others to think and act as you have decided is fit does not fit into the spirit and teachings of our compassionate master. Willis has suggested to me that sometimes these issues can be best dealt with 'face to face' and I hope that it could be possible for some of us who are especially concerned Helen, Ken, Uncle Bob and myself to meet with you as well as Jim, Merlin and Willis to try and find the Spirit of truth in our different perspectives. I can assure you that after you have heard my plea that if you still feel that my spirit positions me outside the fellowship that you claim to represent I will not disturb your fellowship again. Willis knows more of the suggestions I have made for getting together Edgar Massey 3065 Skickat: den 6 mars 2001 17:16 Dear Edgar, You asked, taunted and even threatened for more information regarding Marg's situation. Dale reluctantly gave you (not a public copy letter) some bare facts ...they are true ...you didn't like it ...but remember that you pleaded for them. Merlin 3066 To: Merlin Affleck CC: Dale Shultz, Jim Atcheson, Willis Propp Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:12:20 +0100 A quick reply to yours - note that I did thank Dale for replying to my letters at last. Yes it is true I did plead for it. Note also that it is true I did not like the content of what he wrote. He has apologized for the tone of his letter and I do regard that as a mark of greatness. I do have a great understanding for saying things that afterwards it is easy to feel they could have been said differently. I don't feel that the greatest wrong was in the tone of Dales message and this can easily be forgiven and forgotten, but I still have some serious concerns that the worst wrong is in the content of the message which hasn't been apologized for. The content of the whole issue of expulsion and the assuming of a human power base being far from the spirit of Christ that most of us claim to follow. As to your saying that Dales letter to me was not a public copy letter. I don't really think secrecy is what this issue needs and I have definitely not hidden the fact that all correspondence to or from me is shared. Note that all correspondence to any of you I have sent to each one. Edgar 3067 2427 Cranberry Crt.; Abbotsford, BC; Canada V3G 2W8 Mar 6, 2001 Dear Marg;; I thought it appropriate to respond to your recent letter, having some perception of the matter you describe being not completely represented. I recall Paul Sharp replying to some correspondence he had from you last year and expressed kindly reproof of the spirit of defiance he noticed in you. I also can testify of observation I made a few years ago as you visited in the Vernon area. Your influence on Dave & Linda Collins seemed not to edify, but rather fermented a doubtful and critical perspective in them. This together with the laments of another couple in the area (which issue had nothing to do with the Collins), destroyed them. You have had good privileges in the work, Marg and doubtless have seen fruit for your labours. It is too bad if all this would be despised in taking up someone's lament - which is based on a great lot of misinformation. I have personally looked into the background of several of these issues that have overflowed from Alberta - and found the actual root of the matter looked at rationally is whole lot different than what was represented. The contention seems to have generated a certain "spirit" that advances mistrust, tears down confidence and destroys faith. It does not bless the people who endorse it. I will add no more at this time except to assure you that this is not written in ill-will but in hopes that your soul could be salvaged - for we all have fallibilities. With kind greetings; Now I must stop here for today - with kind greetings. (Signature of WALTER BURKINSHAW) 3068 To: Merlin Affleck Date: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:46 AM Dale has said he regrets the tone of his letter to me but as far as I can figure out he stands firm on the basic content of what was said in it. It seems that you also support the content by some of your wording below. I thought it only fair to give you a chance to clarify your standing if you choose. If I don't hear from you we will regard you as standing behind the content of Dales letter to me about Marg as it seems in your previous letter. Edgar 3071 Skickat: den 7 mars 2001 06:06 Dear Edgar.... I've received 8 e-mails from you in the past 7 days and I acknowledge your concern for the situation concerning Marg. Your original note contained the lengthy letter from Bob Magowan, and since I'm using PocketMail, I wasn't able to immediately retrieve the entire letter. As a result, I hesitated to respond to your letter until I was able to read his. I do respect the feelings and the pain of the innocent people affected by this situation. However, Marg's assertive independence and unwillingness to work as part of the staff of workers, leaves me to believe she has made the choice that, at present, appears best, to her. .....Jim (Atcheson) 3072 CC: Dale Shultz, Merlin Affleck, Willis Propp Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 06:38:41 +0100 Hi Jim And thanks at last for your acknowledgement of our concern after 8 emails. Just a quick note to assure you that I heartily agree that the choices Margaret has made do appear to have been the right ones. Note that our complaint ISN'T with the chooses Margaret has made, but with the choices that you, Merlin and Dale have made that have lead up to this very unfortunate situation. Edgar 3073 Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:17:05 -0800 Dear Marg, I want to apologize to you for an E-mail message that I sent to your cousin, Edgar. In it I mentioned things about you that were unnecessary, unkind, judgmental and inappropriate. I feel very sorry about this and know that what I communicated was not done in the spirit of Christ. This message to you is not to condone things you have done in the past or things that you are continuing to do which are a concern to many of us. It is, nevertheless, an acknowledgement that this letter was not right nor was it written in the spirit of charity. I feel sorry for any extra hurt this has brought to you or those who are near to you. Yours, Dale Shultz 3074 Dear Edgar, You are right, Edgar. These few thoughts have come to my mind from experiences of the past: When I was not too long in Saskatchewan, a person came to me with the purpose of attempting to influence me against Willie Smiley. I replied that he please do not say anything to me that would cause me to lose my confidence in our elder brother. How very grateful I was that he accepted my advice. A year or so later, someone came to me about elder workers in another State, questioning their decision that had affected others. Not even knowing the details of the situation referred to, my answer to this person was that I have enough confidence in this ministry to accept their decision. In each of these above cases, I rested in the fact that the Lord is over His Kingdom and has allowed what took place. If their decision was wrong, He will take care of that in His time. He did. Wouldn't it be wise, Edgar, for us to remember that the Lord is still overruling, and we can safely trust that He will handle it far better than any of us who cannot possibly see the overall picture as our God does. I was thinking of Paul, when he was sent home in Acts 9:30. He must have accepted that decision graciously. Barnabas must also have accepted that decision graciously. Why not let us trust God and do the same. We can also encourage others to do likewise. Your brother, Willis 3075 Sorry Willis but I cannot see how you can encourage anyone to stand idly by and only observe as stones are continued to be thrown, aimed to hurt, at a sister laying on the side of the road. If it makes any difference, they are not little stones!! You are asking me to turn the other way, go around on the other side of the road, and let the Lord take care of it. Willis what are you saying???? Willis, thus far I have not directed criticism to you personally - but remember you are holding the coats of those that doing their best to cast their stones until she will never stand up again. These things do not increase the credibility of the ministry that I long to be able to trust again. Edgar 3076 Date: Thursday, March 08, 2001 12:06 PM Merlin, I am very disturbed about two things. 1-Your support of the totally unjustified removal of my daughter from the work (I realize you felt you must support your "boss", but workers should have only one boss- Christ.) Christ would not have removed Margaret for doing her duty. He did not recognize political borders as He sent Paul to Greece and Rome, and Philip to Gaza. 2- The spirit of your letter to Edgar was not that of which Christ would approve. Edgar was quite rightly upset, and wanted a quick explanation of what had happened. You should be ashamed of yourself on both counts. I do not condemn you for a human response to a difficult situation, but what are you afraid of? I suspect of losing some of the adoration you get as a worker. That sort of worship should go only to sports and movie stars, who are not worthy of it either. Bob Magowan 3081 Date: Thursday, March 08, 2001 12:39 PM Jim, I must complement you on the spirit you showed in your recent letter to Edgar Massey. You did not resort to the character assassination and vilifying that both Dale and Merlin indulged in. If you question this, I can forward both to you so that you may judge for yourself. As for your comment on "her assertive independence, and her unwillingness to work as part of the staff"; Jim, you know better than that. Margaret's working with others at convention preps, and her efforts on special meeting rounds (in spite of often poor health) ; as well as her cooperation with companions should show you the fallacy in that. As always she would not compromise her God given principles of what she should do and preach. Jesus Himself used the very "assertive independence" of which you accuse Margaret. Peter and John said "Whether it be right in the sight of God......judge ye" Is not this assertive independence; to the high priest of all people? Just another proof that our ministry was not intended to have high priests, and that Margaret is still in the ministry, because you all do not have the authority to put her out!!!! 3082 Date: 3/9/01, 6:41 AM Dear Dale The subject of Marg Magowan's excommunication from the ministry of recent days has reached my attention from so many sources that I feel that I must pass on a view from afar. There is a growing awareness of her removal all over the world, and a great deal of consternation and angst is being expressed. There is a general perception that she has not been dealt with fairly, particularly in light of no evidence of any serious infractions that would lead people away from God. For the friends who have been expressing support for her removal, this support is almost entirely justified by character assassination, perhaps even slanderous talk. This only heightens the concerns amongst friends who believe that God is love and that mercy and truth go hand in hand. From what I can see developing, I would say that this issue will not go away if ignored, but the call for fairness and transparency will only intensify as time goes on. This is, in my humble opinion, one issue that ought not be dealt with in darkness, but needs to be brought to the full light of truth before the whole church. You are probably aware of the saying, "For justice to be done, it must be seen to be done", and if this ever applies anywhere, it is here and now. I assume that what you have done has been for the purpose of unity, yet it is very likely to, and is even now, creating more division than ever. Therefore, I strongly urge you to consider participating in, or sponsoring, an open and fair hearing on this matter. If this is done, there will still be disagreement at the end of the day, but all concerned parties will leave satisfied that they have been heard, and perhaps bear a sense of peace that all best efforts at justice has been done. The days of secret tribunals are almost over, and this is a wonderful opportunity for our fellowship to demonstrate that real truth can bear scrutiny. Bruce Murdoch 3091 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 20:20:13 -0700 I cannot begin to express to you the sorrow and heartbreak that I have experienced since becoming aware of the cruel and un-Christ like manner in which you, Willis Propp, Paul Sharp, Paul Chiu, and many other workers arrogantly conduct yourselves. I am aware of countless cases of excommunication, shunning, ungodly "business" decisions, power abuse, and immoral behavior by workers --- both men and women --- who apparently are seeking power, job security, pleasure, and the esteem of men. Workers want to be called servants, but it is more appropriate to call yourselves "saints" because many of you expect to be adored and served by people who are laden with new regulations and rules as the workers deem fit............burdens which are grievous to be borne. Excommunications, unsanctioned meetings, shunning, etc. are NOT of Jesus and God. Day by day, there is a growing abyss between the Ministry of Christ and the ministry of the workers. Sadly, but obviously, the two are only remotely alike. Jesus refused to judge.....He said that was for His Father in Heaven to do........nor did He excommunicate and shun anyone. He didn't even shun Judas although He knew he was bound to betray Him. Harsh judgmental workers and other hard--liners have left no room for Jesus in the fellowship. I can barely bring myself to call it a fellowship anymore because it has become simply another church-system with diminishing consideration for what Jesus would think, do, or say. Unlike Jesus who continually invites, loves, comforts, encourages, and shepherds His flock, you and many other workers are intent on and seem to take delight in judging, excommunicating, shunning, and causing fear, division, and heartbreak without compassion and care.2020 I was appalled to hear of Margaret Magowan's rude and crude removal from the work...sent on her way with an envelope!!! Do you call that severance pay? Because Margaret was not "hired" by God into the Ministry of Christ, you, as a mere mortal, cannot fire her from her God-given place. Merlin stated that Margaret's visits with exed people were out of line. "Out of line with whom?" I ask. Undoubtedly, Christ would be out of line with Merlin, Jim, and Mary Roper, and you because He would have done exactly what Margaret did. I venture to say that, while on your ego-trips, you'd have the audacity to expel Christ from the "ministry of the workers" for showing love, compassion, and consideration to those of us who have been abused, slandered, libeled, and tossed out. Margaret did nothing that Jesus wouldn't have done. I am confident that Jesus, like Margaret, would gladly have made those visits in the flesh........be right there in the midst of those of us who have been deemed unworthy.............assuring us of His boundless love and encouraging us in HIS TRUTH and WAY. I am thankful that He loves and cares boundlessly....even for each of us who have been abused by the system. Clearly we are beyond the love of workers and hard-liners, but we will NEVER be beyond His love! He continuously sends each of us special help in our special time of need. He knows that you and other have booted us out of the church, but no one can boot us out of God's Kingdom. The "system" is surely falling apart quickly, but because TRUTH is like new and living wine, God will provide a new wine-skin. Systems of man do not and cannot last, but the things of God do. Truth will always stand and remain the same no matter how some people strive to twist it for their own gain. My faith and confidence in Him is stronger than ever before in my life. I will follow Christ and leave it to God to deal with those like you and your ungodly, unkind, unloving, and inconsiderate dictates. Yours truly, Lea Cameron (Nesbitt) 3101 To: "Willis Propp Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 22:39:02 +0100 We understand that Dale is to be having a visit with Ken and Patsy tomorrow morning regarding their concerns with how Marg had been treated. As I am sure you can understand, we are all anxiously awaiting the outcome of that visit and praying that the spirit of God will prevail. We do try to trust and pray that the hard and heartless policy of expulsion and scorn will be repealed as soon as possible, and that instead, workers will be encouraged to visit, care for, and show the spirit of love to ALL the sheep of his flock. It does seem rather strange to have to suggest this!!! I have been astonished at the concern that there is for this unfortunate issue from friends from every different corner of the earth It is VERY evident that it has had a very serious effect on the unity of our fellowship. I am not sure you realize the seriousness of what is happening Willis or the scope of the feelings against it. I have been surprised myself at the numbers of people monitoring what is happening. Willis, I have asked you before, and will beg you once again - Please, Do what you can to solve this issue before it becomes even a greater evil. I don't think anyone else can. There is a growing concern that what has been done in darkness and secrecy must be brought to light if it is to be put right. Some have started making efforts to this end. This is noble in its motive and has its roots in the blatant refusal of responsible workers to even listen, but my hope is still, that some of these things can be put right without the division and strife this would bringing about. I am unfortunately fairly alone on this optimism. I also understand that a very offending letter from Walter Burkenshaw is in circulation, and has been the object of the horror of quite a number who until now have counted on dignity and integrity from responsible workers. Edgar 3111 From: "Robert Magowan" To: "B I List" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 10:34 PM Hi All, Most of you know that I have taken it upon myself to castigate the three brothers who took part in Margaret's banishment from the ministry. I have not sent a similar letter to Mary Roper, as I do not feel she had any choice in the matter. Dale would not say to her "If you do not say something to support what I am doing, you are also out.", he would not have to. Mary would have a very difficult time returning to 'civilian life', and is dependent on Dale's good graces for her livelihood. So I would urge anyone thinking of contacting her to be compassionate. 3112 From: "Betty" To: "B I List" Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:56:02 -0800 Why? Maybe you have not experienced Mary Roper. We have had experiences with her here in Edmonton and she was neither fair nor compassionate. Quite frankly you either protect your job or you protect your salvation. Take your pick. Everyone has a choice and we have been professing that for years. When we're tested we don't think we should have to make a choice. When do people actually believe in the faith they so strongly speak about. If doing what is right takes you out of the work or out of the "fellowship" then don't you think God can look after people outside of the work or any other system as well? Why does it all boil down to dollars and cents all the time instead of just plain common sense. Betty 3121 I have received this letter (amongst many others) from a concerned friend that has been obviously monitoring the happenings around Marg's expulsion from the work. I am not acquainted with her but have appreciated her concern for the kingdom. She is possibly not perfect in her walk before God, like none of are, but even if you should feel their are things wrong in her service to God it gives no excuse for disregarding the truth of her words. I would like to give you the chance of saying it is false - if it is. And if the content and spirit of this truly does prove to be false I will never take it up again. If it is true - it is serious. I think you will agree. Complete disregard for the concern of friends cannot be considered appropriate for men and women claiming to be shepherds of the flock. Edgar Massey 3122 To: Bibleinterested Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:07:30 -0800 Helen: Have also had a conversation with Dale Shultz when Willis Propp, Jack Price and Paul Sharp were present. I cannot clearly say which man is more deceitful and which is less compassionate. Dale spent most of his time out in the kitchen looking at a map and was not interested at all in the concerns that were being raised. I would have to say that I will never waste my breath nor any written words on any of these men again. They are businessmen and nothing more. I don't believe there is any sense of spirtuality in anyone of them. They have covered up for each other and justified their system for so long that you would never get an honest answer nor a fair decision from them. I was considering the other day the millions of dollars that have been donated to the "poor and homeless ministry" over the years. It would probably keep a small town alive for a few years and all that money has done is support the "ministry". It has never built a school, hospital, fed the poor or hungry or helped anyone in any way to my knowledge. Correct me if I'm wrong. Betty 3123 Mar 2001 06:53:35 -0000 Cc: list bibleinterested Dale, I'm sure that you have received much mail re your handling/mishandling of the situation in Canada. (marg magowan). it is very sad that you and your companions lack the love and empathy of Christ in your dealings with others, (professing and non-professing). I understand that by her stopping to see those that were "outside" it made others in the work uncomfortable. Perhaps it's time that you all got out of your cushioned comfort zones. according to scripture laborers are to go and seek the lost ones. does this thought fit into the scheme of things in Canada? another question, where does all the money go that is given to workers? does Willis Propp have bank accounts? do you have a significant amount of cash on you? perhaps the time has come for an accounting for all workers. I certainly hope that you will answer the questions and comments that have been offered to you in a timely fashion. thank you c. myszkier 3124 Fr: Ken Massey Skickat: den 13 mars 2001 02:55 Hello all, Re: my thoughts on today's meeting. Present were Patsy, myself, Wendell and Elaine Massey, Richard King, David Leonhardt and Dale Shultz. I started by saying that I had a few questions to ask and that my intention was not to offend anyone but that there would be some "Frank" questions. All 3 agreed that questions would be fine. For the record, Dale did 99% of the talking/answering Question # 1 "how is what happened to Marg and the people in Alberta Christ like? (never answered) He went on quit a bit about Marg's poor attitude these last few years and I'll refer you to the first Email that he sent to you as the problem she has been and stressing that she should have NEVER EVER have gone to the unsanctioned meeting in Alberta. More references to worker protocol about venturing into someone else's field. Patsy then asked if David and Richard were notified When Merlin and Dennis approached us in Moosejaw about the Marg situation? No but that is totally different. The problem in Alberta is a far bigger problem. I say that the Marg situation is a very very big problem to me. We then moved on to question # 2 "What are all 5 things that Marg had to promise? I don't feel that I should answer that. Question # 3 " What messages did you find inappropriate" He came back with a question. did you not ever hear things that were inappropriate? I said no although sometimes things she said were a little deep for me ( on one or two occasions maybe) and that I enjoyed her honesty and that others had indicated that to me too. Then he said that she takes up the feminist cause and because of what she said at Kindersley special meeting proves his point. I said I certainly didn't notice. the only thing I can think of that was remotely linked to gender was that she said that there was more sister workers than brothers. he said also that she would bring up often references to problems in the work. When asked if what she said was untrue, his reply was that maybe it was the truth but exaggerated truth. I guess he lost me there, how can you exaggerate truth? Question # 4 "In some of your letters, you indicated that there were many concerns of workers, elders and friends. Were these concerns doctrinal or human?" Oh no (shaking his head) they were far worse than human problems. We asked what they were. The example he gave was the time she wanted to send a letter around to the friends in her field either from the excomm. friends in Alberta or about their distress. According to Dale one of the first churches that she showed this to, called Dale and all pleaded with her not to do this, so that time she didn't. Question # 5 " Were you encouraged by the Alberta workers or any other workers to put Marg out?" About the Alberta workers "absolutely not" Merlin must have told him of my seeing Willis and himself together visiting, 5 days before the ax came down on Marg. Anyway he said that he had the approval of Paul Sharpe before removing Marg from the work. Question # 6 Was it really you who wrote the questionable email to Edgar?( I had no doubt, but some of Pasty's family felt that it must be a fake) We also told him that. He said indeed it was his but that there was an apology too. We acknowledged that. Question # 7 " What is this document and is it something you use? ( showing them a "Christian Conventions" letterhead with his signature on the bottom) "Yes I remember signing this one " we use this sort of thing when we communicate with the government to get visas for workers to go abroad and to deal with wills left to the work. I said that it looked to me like a corporate letterhead. He said that it wasn't anything like that because it wasn't legally incorporated or registered. Someone referred to this document as something from the devil with Dale's signature on it, so we were verifying that it really was his signature. Question # 8 Willis suggested talking face to face if this issue cannot be solved on a local basis should we do this? Dales reply was that we were doing just that by talking to him this morning. A larger group than we have leads to counter productivity. Dale implied that we should just be quiet about things when we asked if that was what he meant he said he would leave that up to us to figure out what he meant. Dale told us we should be very careful how we discuss these things with our family. I think he meant Edgar and Helen.) We asked for scripture to suggest there should be overseers. Dale's reply to that was there have always been overseers since he can remember. When we pressed for scripture he gave us: I Samuel 10:20 and 1 Peter 5 ( if someone can explain this, please do.) We asked for scripture as to where people were put out of the work or excommed. he gave us 1 Corinth 5, 1 Timothy 1:18, Titus 3:9 There probably was some more things said that have slipped my mind that I might remember later but I'm sure you have the gist of what went on. There seemed to be amazement that we would question the oversight relevance and to question the place of the workers and they quoted to esteem them highly for the works sake. To me it seemed that they were tooting their own horn but that is just my opinion. I made it clear, before the meeting was over, that my position had not changed but before deciding the direction that our family would take we would carefully ponder all things, pray, read, and ask for Gods guidance. Feel free to respond with comments. Ken PS please keep this letter to yourselves, refer to it if you like, but I would prefer if it is not circulated broadly. 3131 To: Willis Propp Cc: Dale Shultz, Jim Atcheson, Merlin Affleck Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:44:28 +0100 Willis since becoming involved in this issue about Marg my mailbox has been filled with letters from many concerned people with many, many different concerns about how difficulties have been handled in this fellowship. I would just like to add that 95% of them are friends and elders that are still in fellowship. This document turned up today which I am sincerely hoping you can tell me is not true. Your brother Edgar ALBERTA EXCOMMUNICATIONS (1999) 3141 Skickat: den 14 mars 2001 08:44 Till: Willis Propp Kopia: Dale Shultz; Jim Atcheson; Merlin Affleck Willis, since becoming involved in this issue about Marg, my mailbox has been filled with letters from many concerned people with many, many different concerns about how difficulties have been handled in this fellowship. I would just like to add that 95% of them are friends and elders that are still in fellowship. This document turned up today which I am sincerely hoping you can tell me is not true. Your brother Edgar 3142 To: Dale Shultz Cc: Jim Atcheson, Merlin Affleck Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:56:51 +0100 To any who may be concerned , I have sent the following question to Willis, which he hasn't answered as yet. This leads me to believe that the facts involved are true. This is VERY disturbing to me, and has moved me to consider sending this out to all I could feel involved in the fellowship in any way, with the hope of finding out any positions that the different ones could possibly take on this issue that are different than my own. I cannot understand how people professing Christianity can accept these things as if they were Christ like. The reason I am involved is that my cousin Marg Magowan was expelled from the work for being critical to the substance of what is described in the following document. I stand behind her criticism 100% and would like to feel many others also would if they knew the truth about the things she has criticized. It IS possible for each to choose to 'look the other way', and go around on the other side of the road, upon seeing someone robbed of what they have given their life for, and pushed into the ditch. It IS an option to 'Let someone else look after it' and go on about your daily business!! Please note that the tone of the following document is NOT bitter, just positively critical. Anything less critical would be unrighteous in my opinion. Yours truly Edgar Massey Grottorp Svedjan 1 460 21 UPPH=C4RAD Sweden Tel: (46) 520 441944 Fax: (46) 520 441945 Email: emassey@massdata.se <mailto:emassey@massdata.se> Note: The document is quite long. If time is a problem just the first two pages do say a lot It IS possible for each to choose to 'look the other way', and go around on the other side of the road, upon seeing someone robbed of what they have given their life for, and pushed into the ditch. It IS an option to 'Let someone else look after it' !! 3151 From: Edgar Massey To: Dale Shultz Cc: Willis Propp, Jim Atcheson, Merlin Affleck Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:59:46 +0100 Dale, this excerpt from a letter came in to day, claiming to have come from a letter you had written. I would like to give you a chance to deny writing it before using it as evidence that some things are in desperate need of being but right. Apparently written in Saskatoon, Sask. April 12, 1999 Beginning of quote. So, there are two possibilities regarding the decision of the overseers to maintain and support the status quo in Alberta. One possibility is that the decision is a right decision for the province. That would mean that they are seeing some things in the picture that some of us are missing when we look at it. Another possibility is that it was not the best decision for the province. But, whichever is the applicable possibility in this case, it does remain the right thing to respect that decision because of where it has come from and to work with it no matter what our own thoughts might be on the subject. End of quote Sincerely hoping you can put my mind to rest on this Edgar Massey 3161 From: Edgar Massey To: "Dale Shultz Cc: "Jim Atcheson, "Merlin Affleck, "Willis Propp Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:52:20 +0100 Some one else has come with this quote attributing it to you Dale Begin quote Whether the decision is right or wrong, the right thing for all of us is to respect it because of those who have made the judgment. End quote Are you implying that the overseeing workers have been given the divine right to make 'wrong' the right thing for people to do. This doesn't sound like the truth I was brought up to believe. Edgar Massey 3162 From: Edgar Massey To: "Willis Propp Cc: "Dale Shultz, Merlin Affleck, Jim Atcheson Subject: Willis, this tastes like politics of the worst kind Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:30:58 +0100 If this is true can you tell me where there is room for the spirit of God to lead. 3163 From: Edgar Massey To: Willis Propp, Dale Shultz Cc: Jim Atcheson, Merlin Affleck Subject: Willis and Dale do these things have to be circulated to be put right? Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 08:45:11 +0100 3171 From: Walter Holt Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 20:12:01 -0800 (PST) To Mr. Dale Shultz; Saskatchewan Overseer; For Christian Conventions CC: Merlin Affleck, Jim Atcheson, Mary Roper, Willis Propp, Bible Interested Dear Sir: It is clearly evident after your visit with Willis Propp and receiving instructions, you have proceeded to follow Willis' direction of judgment upon others. This is very clear in your letter to Edgar Massey and your character attack on Marg Magowan. I believe you will rue the day that you listened to your superior (higher in ranking) fellow minister Mr. Willis Propp. It is all too clear that your fellowship is one of ranking and a descending order of authority (pecking order). This hierarchy system is not scriptural and you of all people should know that. The same applies to your territorial reign over areas or what you call "fields", states or provinces. God's love and the leading of the Holy Spirit is not limited to fields, provinces, states or countries. So Dale -- How is it that you have taken the liberty to change or add to, what God has set in place? No doubt you may well write this letter off as another disgruntled Albertan with a Bad Spirit ... simply because I don't agree with your self-righteous, arrogant, Pharisee type attitude. I feel sorry that you have allowed yourself to stray so far from what Jesus lived and died for, and left on record for us today. I have C.C. this letter to three of your Sask. workers because you were ALL party to the action regarding Marg Magowan and as such bear the same responsibility in this matter. It would appear that you workers have no respect for God's law/order of doing things or that of the laws governing this land. Consideration is now being given to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms in Canada as a result of the actions, attitudes, and instructions of workers and Overseers. May you find it within your hearts to openly declare the errors of your ways (actions) and seek to make things right before God and Man. With respect for all of God's creation Walter Holt; Edmonton Alberta 3172 To: Willis Propp, Dale Shultz, Jim Atcheson, Merlin Affleck Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 12:34:35 +0100 Do you remember when the most important question for both friends and workers was what was right and wrong before God , not who it was that said it? Do you remember when both friends and workers were encouraged to be lead by the spirit of God - and to trust that spirit unto death, if needs be? Do you remember when the Spirit of love and compassion for all was our goal, and regarded as the spirit of Christ? Do you remember when the ministry was both poor and homeless? Do you remember when love was a virtue to be encouraged and respected? Do you remember when it was an honor to be the least in the kingdom, and the concept of a hierarchy was discouraged? This fellowship has always consisted of imperfect people but I can remember when these things where the goal, and when we were all encouraged to aim at these things. Why is it different now? Edgar Massey 3241 From: Edgar Massey Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:29:53 +0200 Till: Dale Shultz; Willis Propp; Jim Atcheson; Merlin Affleck Some open questions! (In connection with the expulsion of Marg Magowan from the work 2001) Do you remember when the most important question for both friends and workers was what was right and wrong before God, not who it was that said it? Do you remember when both friends and workers were encouraged to be lead by the spirit of God - and to trust that spirit unto death, if needs be? Do you remember when the Spirit of love and compassion for all was our goal, and regarded as the spirit of Christ? Do you remember when the ministry was both poor and homeless? Do you remember when love was a virtue to be encouraged and respected? Do you remember when it was an honor to be the least in the kingdom, and the concept of a hierarchy in our fellowship was discouraged? Do you remember when we all felt that the Gospel was meant to bring 'light' to us all in our struggle to understand our lives and the purpose of God for them? Do you remember when seeking to keep the truth about situations around us in darkness, and requesting blind obedience was regarded as a tool of false religion? This fellowship has always consisted of imperfect people but I can remember when these things where the goal, and when we were all encouraged to aim at these things. Why does it seem to me it is different now? Edgar Massey 3261 Skickat: den 27 mars 2001 06:44 Thanks for the acknowledgment that you had received my e-mails with the "Remember whens". I have sent a number of other e-mails that I have received no acknowledgment of. Wonder if you have received them? Edgar Massey 3271 Fr: Dale Shultz Skickat: den 27 mars 2001 06:57 Till: Edgar Massey Dear Edgar, You have sent me a list of "remember whens" a couple of times now. It is not difficult at all to remember when these things were true because they are still true and they are still are very much a part of the fellowship that we enjoy and value so highly. Yours, Dale Shultz 3272 To: Dale Shultz Cc: Jim Atcheson Willis Propp Merlin Affleck Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:50:40 +0200 Dale, about the things I brought to memory of the truth I was taught as a boy. In your reply to that letter you said that you still feel "these things are true and they are still part of the fellowship that we enjoy and value highly" Here is the first point I mentioned in that email and I can not understand how you can feel that the message you proclaim, is the same today. Begin quote from my letter "Do you remember when the most important question for both friends and
workers was what was right and wrong before God, not who it was that said
it?" As you may try to honestly say and believe this is true, how do you deal with this direct quote from a letter you wrote in 1999 about the same issues we are concerned about now. Begin quote from your letter Whether the decision is right or wrong, the right thing for all of us is to
respect it because of those who have made the judgement Dale, can you explain to me what honesty in this means to you. These two statements are NOT saying the same thing. Not anywhere close to the same thing! Or have you changed your thinking since writing that letter? Would you be willing today to encourage people to do the right thing, whoever may be encouraging them to do anything else? Yours in Him Edgar Massey 3273 To: Dale Shultz Cc: Willis Propp, Jim Atcheson, Merlin Affleck Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:59:15 +0200 The second point on the "Remember when" list was this one Do you remember when both friends and workers were encouraged to be lead by the spirit of God - and to trust that spirit unto death, if needs be? Another quote from a letter you wrote Dale Beginning of quote. So, there are two possibilities regarding the decision of the overseers to maintain and support the status quo in Alberta. One possibility is that the decision is a right decision for the province. That would mean that they are seeing some things in the picture that some of us are missing when we look at it. Another possibility is that it was not the best decision for the province. But, whichever is the applicable possibility in this case, it does remain the
right thing to respect that decision because of where it has come from and to
work with it no matter what our own thoughts might be on the subject. I can't believe the utter disregard that you show for the value of what the spirit of God has laid on the hearts of individuals. The phrase "No matter what our own thoughts might be" is an admonition to do the exact opposite of what I remember being taught as a boy. What you are saying is "Pay no attention to what the spirit of God may have taught you - do what the overseers have decided, however right or wrong that may be." Dale - this is exactly what you are saying!!! It is also exactly what you are forcing your staff to do!!! Look what has happened to Marg!! Would you dare to encourage your staff to shepherd and care for any that need and seek the help of God? Would you dare to encourage them to listen to and trust the spirit of love and compassion that the Lord has created within them?? Would you dare to encourage them to love and to serve no matter what the consequences may be?? Yours in Him Edgar Massey 3274 From: "Helen Furtan" <bisonhf@hotmail.com> To: brucegmurdoch@compuserve.com, rwilliston@pyramid.net Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 20:37:27 -0600 From: Helen Furtan, 1042 Spadina Cres.E., Saskatoon, SK S7K 3H7, (306)652-8832 I am enclosing a series of letters written because of serious concerns regarding the manner in which many of our brethren in the fellowship have been treated. It is included with this letter from Edgar because many of you may not be aware that the allegations made against Marg are unfounded. The care and example of Jesus has apparently not been upheld by those who have assumed positions of power. Something that particularly concerns me is in the letter of "apology" from Dale to Marg which, after having discarded her from her life's work, includes a continued attempt to control her for following her heart and the leading of God. He is freely spreading his version of events throughout the world but would belittle her for communicating with those closest to her. Is the truth supposed to put us in bondage or set us free? This is NOT a request that you do anything. We each have a responsibility to follow God's leading to our own hearts, neither should we disparage one another with untruths. Our responsibility is to love one another and to NEVER drive our brothers and sisters away from fellowship. Questions or comments: Helen Furtan email: helenfurtan@yahoo.ca Ph: (306)652-8832 Bruce Murdoch email: brucemurdoch@compuserve.com Ph: (250)426-6110 3275 To: Dale Shultz Cc: Willis Propp, Jim Atcheson, Merlin Affleck Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:58:55 +0200 "Do you remember when the Spirit of love and compassion for all was our goal, and regarded as the spirit of Christ?" How can you say this is true today when Willis has written this to you and you have accepted it. Begin quote from Willis letter June 29th, 1999 2. Jack and Dale Shultz at our request agreed to disassociate themselves from those they have been linked with in Alberta. This will surely help to get things resolved. They will write to our Staff stating their intention. End quote You have agreed to abandon the people in Alberta that had trusted you, and come to you for help. You were asked to promise this in writing to the Alberta workers. How can you be honest and say that the Spirit of love and compassion for all is your goal?. I have a transcript of the meeting where you excommunicated Marg - and the ONLY issue taken up was her conviction to show the spirit of love and compassion to the expelled friends in Alberta, which was against your wishes. (You claim there were other issues but this was enough on its own) You cruelly forced her out of the work she had given her life for, and consequently have worked to defame her amongst as many of the friends as possible.( I also have records of some of those conversations) Where is the Spirit of Christ in all this?? Edgar Massey 3281 From: Edgar Massey Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 07:02:59 +0200 Yes Dale is to be at Stockholm convention I see on our list of visitors. (Although European conventions are very uncertain now because of the foot and mouth disease problem. Understand some conventions in England have been canceled - possibly moved into the cities) I had a VERY VERY discouraging visit on the phone with Russell Jacobs last night. Total indifference. I couldn't believe it. He leaves Norway for California the 2nd of April. Here is the email I sent him after the call Russell Sorry that our phone call gave so little Russell. I am still trying to deal with the total un-interest you have shown in the issues of right and wrong that I thought were a part of our fellowship. I do suppose you feel a loyalty to the buyers of your ticket to California, and those who will be arranging your privileges in North America but I had honestly believed that an interest in truth and concern for the spirit of Love and compassion would have been higher on your priority list. Best wishes Edgar 3291 From: Edgar Massey Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 12:12:32 +0200 This is the answer I sent to our responsible brother here in Sweden to an email asking me - in a very nice way - to quit disturbing the peace and leave things to the workers in Canada to deal with. .... It would surprise me if he hasn't pressure on him to 'deal with me'. Edgar Fr Edgar Massey Skickat: den 31 mars 2001 11:57 Till: 'Eldon Knudson' Thanks for your email this morning and of course I have understood your concern for us, in light of our worries in this issue that at the moment is focused in Canada. We do appreciate your concern in this. I will also of course respect your wish not to be disturbed by these things from me in the future. I do have confidence and respect for your efforts to be a help to us all here. Unfortunately I am distressed at the complete disregard that the responsible workers in Western Canada have for the spirit of Christ and feel that time (several years) has only proven a complete unwillingness to deal with these problems. The concern by responsible workers has ONLY been to protect an ungodly institution made by man that they have called the 'work'. (I am of course thankful for and aware of the fact they many if not 'most' workers are not part of this evil institution.) My sister and I have sent out a letter (by ordinary mail) to a large number of workers and friends expressing our concern. (The content of which I have informed you of via email) We are encouraged by the response from both workers and friends thus far and are hoping that we can get some little indication that someone responsible is willing to give evidence of just a little effort being made, to put wrong things right. I of course would be the happiest of all, if I could feel that something concrete is being done, even just some little things, and would gladly back out and cancel all further efforts from our part as this would happen. Hope that you realize that this is not just a trivial concern to us. Yours in Him, Edgar Massey 3311 CORRESPONDENCE THROUGH APRIL 2001 CORRESPONDENCE THROUGH MAY 2001 CORRESPONDENCE THROUGH JUNE 2001 CORRESPONDENCE THROUGH JULY 2001
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